Mozhdah - The Woman to Watch

Ovi Bistriceanu and Mozhdah Jamalzadah in Ovi’s Vancouver studio.

Photo by Steph Rushton

With a story more relevant than ever, pop star and women’s rights activist Mozhdah Jamalzadah introduces us to her power producer, Ovi Bistriceanu, and talks about keys to overcoming failure, their creative process, and what they’ve been cooking up in and out of the studio.

Given the nickname “the Oprah of Afghanistan” by Oprah herself, Mozhdah Jamalzadah is far from your average pop star. A stellar example of the modern Afghan woman, her compelling story starts with her precarious childhood in Afghanistan, due to the civil war, and her family’s difficult decision to leave for Canada. In her youth, Mozhdah was more focused on kicking ass and academics than making music. She was dedicated to her Taekwondo practice; she studied broadcast journalism, philosophy, and political science at the acclaimed University of British Columbia; and she dreamed of using her skills to improve the situation in Afghanistan, especially for women and children. Soon music proved to be her greatest ally in coping with the situation in Afghanistan and provided her with a source of great inspiration. With Metallica and Queen as her primary guides into the universe of music, Mozhdah soon discovered that music was exactly the vessel she needed to help bring about change. Now with a number of hits under her belt, a TV show in her name (The Mozhdah Show), a role in a critically acclaimed film (Red Snow), and a biography that has just been released (Voice of Rebellion), Mozhdah has proved that determination trumps fear, and she’s only getting started. When we stopped in Vancouver, we knew we had to hear more about Mozhdah’s incredible story and what she has in store next. We caught up with Mozhdah and her producer, Ovi Bistriceanu, in his Vancouver studio where they spoke about setbacks, creating together and music in film.

Steph Rushton: I’ve spoken to many artists, but you’re the first who is also a women’s rights champion, former talk show host, and has co-released a book. You have such an incredible story so I would like to kick off our interview with your journey from Afghanistan to right here and now in Vancouver with me ☺

Mozhdah Jamalzadah: I was around seven or eight years old when I came to Canada. Most immigrants land in the Toronto area and we were living in Oshawa [Ontario]; then three years later my dad discovered Vancouver and we’ve been here ever since. I’m really grateful that I got to grow up here, it’s such a beautiful city.

SR: So, your music career started once you were in Vancouver?

MJ: Yes! I didn’t even know how to tune a radio until seventh grade when I wanted to fit in and make friends. I was a nerd, so the extent of my interactions with other students was getting paid to do their homework. All the kids were talking about *NSYNC and all these bands and their hit songs which were played on the radio, so one day I came home and was like “mom how do you tune a radio, I need to listen to this.” I thought of it as homework, researching music that aired so I could include myself in the conversations with other kids at school. The last thing I ever thought about was becoming a singer, they were like aliens from another planet to me. Then my best friend bought me my first album.

SR: Which was what?

MJ: Silver by Moist, then I bought my second album, which was The Black Album by Metallica. Oh my god those were like…they blew my mind and I became obsessed.

SR: That’s the coolest thing ever that you listen to Metallica! They’re responsible for my eternal love for Rock n Roll and got me into so many other bands I still listen to today. It’s really cool that they inspired you too! 

MJ: (to Ovi) We should really do a cover of “Nothing Else Matters”—that would be so crazy! I’m obsessed with Metallica, to this day I still listen to that album, especially the songs “The Unforgiven” and “Nothing else matters”. When I saw it in the store I was like “oh that’s a cool album,” then I brought it home and listened to it, and I became obsessed, listening to it day and night. So that was definitely the album that got me into music.

SR: When did it switch, when were you like, “ok now I want to start making my own music”?

MJ: It didn’t happen until a lot later. For a long time, it was just those two albums that I was listening to, and then I started getting more and more into music. I was closely following what was happening in Afghanistan and listening to Metallica and some of the other bands I discovered really helped me through it. During my teenage years I felt abandoned and alone because most of my family was still back home in Afghanistan and the situation there with the Taliban was so bad that I wasn’t able to visit them. I was watching the Taliban do all these horrible things, especially to women, so it was a very painful time in my life, and I realized I needed to do something about it. Music inspired me to start writing poetry and I went to my mom and said, “mom wouldn’t it be great if one day somebody would turn my poems into songs and maybe sing them,” and she said, “why won’t you sing them?” But at that time I couldn’t sing! When I first started writing poems, I was an introverted, shy little girl who read a lot of books and didn’t have good social skills, so singing publicly was the last thing I thought of doing. I was a tomboy and my mom was trying to get me into ballroom dancing but I ended up in Taekwondo instead because I wanted to kick butt and be like Sonia from Mortal Kombat [laughs]. My mom eventually convinced me to take some guitar lessons, but when I showed up at the first lesson, the instructor told me we would try singing first. So, there I was, super shy and teary eyed and couldn’t believe my mom tricked me, so I started singing because I was so shy, I didn’t know how to say no and it sounded horrible [laughs]. At one point I asked the instructor if we should stop because I thought I sounded so bad, but he was like “I see potential, you’re not tone deaf and your voice is nice which means we can work on it and make something of it.” So, I continued with the lessons—three times a week for three years—and after a while I became more confident in myself and it felt really good. I could hear myself getting better and better so then I eventually transferred into the British Columbia Conservatory of Music and I started learning Opera. It was very challenging, but again my instructor there was like, “give it five months.”

SR: Wow yeah opera is a whole other level of singing!

MJ: It really is [laughs]! But I’m so glad I listened because after that it became so much easier to sing any note; my range increased, and I became a lot more flexible vocally which was awesome. So, once I could sing, I wanted to use the media as a platform to get my message across to these vicious monsters who are doing this to women and destroying my country, so it was like a lightbulb went off.

SR: What did your parents think about you doing this?

MJ: My mom and dad were so supportive; they were always telling me “don’t forget where you came from, you could’ve been one of those girls and you’re very fortunate to be here [in Vancouver] where you have all the security, safety, and freedoms that Canada has provided for you, so you should take advantage of that to help others who are not as fortunate.” I thought music was the best way to get through to people because people do listen to music if the song is cool enough and without realizing it, they start listening to the lyrics and singing along. So, everything we planned was a long shot, but I still wanted to give it a try. There were no female singers in Afghanistan at the time, except for maybe one or two, but they were very conservative wearing hijabs standing still in a corner. My dad wrote the lyrics for “Afghan girl”, the first women’s protest song in history, which blew up in Afghanistan and ended up getting me an invitation to perform it at the White House for the Obamas, so my message was really heard.

SR: Wow the White House, what a place to start! I understand you were the first Afghan to perform in the White House for a president. What was it like?

MJ: A few months prior, I was asked to perform at the Embassy of Afghanistan in Washington D.C. because the Afghan Ambassador to the US heard “Afghan girl”. One of Obama’s advisors saw my performance and reached out to me a number of months later asking me to perform at the White House for the Obamas on International Women’s Day. My mind was blown, and I didn’t know what to do with myself! I was incredibly excited because I was so into politics, even more than music, and I had been following Obama’s campaign and really looked up to him. It was so incredible; I had a chance to chat with them [Barak and Michelle] in the Blue Room where we also had a picture taken together. Before I met them for pictures, it was funny because one of his [Barak’s] guards came up to me and was like “excuse me miss, but the president wants to double check how to pronounce your name. He’s been practicing all morning and he really wants to get it right.” I thought that was so sweet, and even though he ended up butchering the pronunciation anyways, I was like “oh my god Obama said my name” [laughs]. It was very surreal and that was probably the most amazing moment of my life. One day I would like to use my popularity to become a politician so I can really help make an impact by changing laws; it’s absolutely my end goal to be in the senate or something similar.

SR: What type of policies you would try to implement?

MJ: I think about that all the time. There are certain administrations that have really messed up, even here in Canada. There are so many areas we still have a long way to go, such as women’s rights, diversity, racism, and foreign policy with other countries, like Afghanistan. But I think my biggest goal is to make child marriage illegal and improve conditions for children in developing countries in general, especially young girls because they are very vulnerable and still highly discriminated against.

SR: You mentioned before that when you started singing there were not many female singers in Afghanistan; so even the few female musicians there were still very oppressed?

MJ: Yes, very oppressed and I thought, “no that’s not how I’m going to do this.” Next thing I know—boom—my first song “Sher Bacha” became #1 almost overnight because at the time there were no females dancing and prancing around on stage singing their heart out, so everyone in Afghanistan was like, “who is this girl, how did her parents allow her to do this, she’s Afghan, she’s Muslim!” It’s funny because it was my parents who pushed me to do this. In Afghan culture, it’s very rare that a female is encouraged and supported by her family to do something like this.

SR: Do you think by releasing that song and continuing to release music it’s helped to bring about change in Afghanistan?

MJ: Absolutely, now there are more female singers in Afghanistan than male singers. Right after I started singing, more and more girls and women started singing, whether their families approved or not, because it was their passion, it was their dream. Some of them became so successful that they are now among the top artists in Afghanistan and I’m really happy to see that.

SR: It’s pretty amazing that you’ve paved the way and made Afghan women feel more comfortable pursuing their dreams!

MJ: At that time, I called myself the “punching bag” because that’s when I was getting all of the death threats, and really mean comments on YouTube, Facebook and any other social media platform and it hurt. It’s so painful to see that so many people hate you for just singing a song and having a music video. People were saying all kinds of really terrible things like, “how dare you,” “you’re a disgrace to Afghanistan,” and “you’ve given us a bad name.”

SR: Did it ever make you question what you were doing?

MJ: Oh yes, in the beginning I didn’t have any supporters so there were a lot of people who were bashing me and saying things like “you’re a woman, you belong in the kitchen” [laughs] and it really hurt. At one point I cried to my mom and told her I wanted to quit, and she said “Mozhdah this is why there are no female singers. If you quit, that’s exactly what they want, so there’s no way you’re quitting.” So, if it wasn’t for my parents, I probably wouldn’t have been able to continue and in hindsight, that whole experience made me so much stronger.

SR: So, the book you co-wrote with Roberta Staley, Voice of Rebellion, will be released on October 22, 2019. How did this project come about and how did it make you feel that someone wanted to write a book about your life?

MJ: Being a nerd, it was always my dream to be involved with books more than anything. I’d received a number of offers before, but none of them felt right so I declined. Then in 2015 Roberta made a documentary called Mightier Than The Sword and it included my story as well as those of two other Afghan females in the media industry. Because of the film, Greystone Books approached Roberta and asked her if she would be interested in writing a book about my life. Since Roberta and I were already good friends from the documentary, it felt right, and I was very excited about it! It was a three-year process with a lot of interviews and a lot of my mom’s cooking. Roberta is vegetarian so my mom always made special veggie Afghan dishes for her, which I think she liked [laughs]. The interviews were not only with me but with Ovi and my parents as well. It was a lot, but it was so fun at the same time because I got to hear my parents’ stories again and we had these long evenings of Q&A and really good food with everyone together. But there were some instances when Roberta was interviewing me where I had to re-live some difficult moments from my past. Very very difficult moments in my life, so re-living those was a little bit upsetting, but it was worth it. I wanted to be as real as possible in the book; to be genuine; to tell the truth about everything—no matter how people take it.

SR: I think it’s really great that you shared a lot of the harder moments in your life. In this age of social media, most people only post about great aspects of their lives which can make it really hard for people to discuss hardships they’ve had. I’ve always been a believer that failure is a really important part of success, so I wanted to ask you, looking back on your life what would you say was a failure you endured that at the time you felt you couldn’t overcome but you did?

MJ: There were several [laughs], so there was not just one specific failure. When you get a chance to read the book, it does a great job of discussing all of the struggles that I’ve been faced with and I wouldn’t change any of them for the world as I have become such a strong person because of them. Enduring those struggles really shaped who I am; they empowered me, they taught me who I am and what I value most, and helped me achieve what I have today. It’s also important to have goals and not let society dictate how you live. A lot of people are so pressured by society and the people around them, as well as the need to feel secure in life, that many people give up on their dreams. I grew up not having that security, so I had to take risks. You can’t just play it safe all the time.

SR: Did you draw any parallels between the process of writing a book versus when you work with Ovi to write music?

MJ: Absolutely, with music it’s the same thing. When we’re working on an album it’s just hours and hours and hours of sitting here writing—writing and re-writing until we’re content with the result. And then getting the vocals down and layering the music in and mixing, so it’s a long process to get each song where you want it to be. And Ovi is a perfectionist, so he wants to make sure everything’s on point. Ovi what phrase do you use?

Ovi Bistriceanu: Didn’t have passion, it needs more passion!

MJ: Yeah I hear that one a lot. One time we had lunch and I came back into the booth, started singing, and Ovi was like, “you know what, this isn’t going to work, just go home and we’ll try this again tomorrow.” After that we never had lunch again before recording because the minute I have lunch I don’t have what it takes and Ovi knows that and can hear it in my voice. I’m really so grateful that Ovi works this way; he wants me to sing it right instead of tweaking it on the computer afterwards. So, I need to be prepared when I walk into the studio and I like that discipline I get from working with him. Also, anything he makes is just the best sounding thing, so I get really excited to come into the studio with him. This is how we’ve created hit songs that have over a million views on YouTube. I used to wonder how he was able to make certain songs sound so Afghan and yet so Western at the same time—it’s two complete opposites but he does the fusion thing so well. Ovi, what were you saying about the Balkans?

OB: I’m also an immigrant, so I’ve been exposed to completely different cultures. When I was living in Romania working in the music industry, I was trying to mimic Western music because it was 10-15 years after communism fell so Western things were allowed to come into the country and everyone was fascinated with the Western sound. So, living in the Balkans during this time allowed me to really experiment mixing the sounds of different cultures.

SR: This is something I love about your music; it beautifully integrates so many different sounds and styles. If you were to define your music, what genre would you call it? 

OB: I would say ethnic pop, which was also the idea behind my company Ethnobeast, that produces all of Mozhdah’s songs. I take huge pleasure in combining sounds from around the world—and it’s not only oriental sounds or only Balkan sounds—I like to use any kind of music that is traditionally from a certain area to mix in and make Western pop sound different, give it flavor, add some spices. Everyone eats potatoes, but if you put in the right mixture of spices, suddenly they become really interesting potatoes.

SR: That’s another good point, since you can speak and sing in so many languages, how does that impact your creative process and how do you decide what language you want to make a song in?

OB: It depends. Sometimes we just find some really old songs that Mozhdah likes that are traditional Afghan songs and we remake them to be more Western sounding. Other times we actually look at fan comments on YouTube, like when we did a cover of a very popular Pakistani song called “Maata Janaan”.

MJ: One time I heard a Hindi song and I thought it was incredible, so I sent it to Ovi immediately and he loved it. We did a cover of that song and a lot of the comments were saying it was better than the original. This was a big challenge for me because, although I learned a bit of Urdu when I was young when I lived in Pakistan as a refugee, which is kind of similar to Hindi, it was my first attempt at singing in Hindi. But I loved it so much I had to make it work. So, what language we make songs in largely depends on what inspired the song in the first place.

SR: Do you ever feel pressure to make music in English? 

OB: A lot of artists think that singing in English gets them a broader audience, which is true to some extent.

MJ: English is a universal language and it’s something that everyone listens to. However, I actually went the opposite direction. I didn’t know Farsi that well, I can’t read or write in Farsi—I’m learning now—thanks to social media because I needed to be able to read the comments to figure out if people were talking shit about me and if I needed to delete any of them [laughs]. So, to all the haters, thank you because now I know how to read Farsi! But it’s still really difficult for me to write in Farsi; whereas in English we can sit there and co-write together and make an awesome song so easily. So, I started singing in English, but I felt pressure to sing in Farsi in order to get into the Afghan market. It took me seven years to find the courage to sing in Pashto, the other official language in Afghanistan, but now that I’ve done it, I’ve become a bit obsessed with it and I really want to do it again!

SR: Do you have any advice for musicians from non-English speaking countries who are trying to make it the North American music market?

MJ: It’s a lot easier—not easy—but it’s easier to do it in your own language first. Try and break into your own regional market first because there is so much competition in North America because here, everyone is encouraged to follow their passions and make a name for themselves. So, once you develop a following in your own country, it’s easier to transition into North America. I’ve also seen a lot of artists who had something really good going on with the best team then made the mistake of ditching them to work with an international producer with a bigger name who offered more money, but then it ended up not working out. So, I think when something is working for you, stick with it, and evaluate opportunities based on what will really work for you, not just based on money and fame. I really got so lucky meeting Ovi!

SR: How did your creative partnership with Ovi come to be?

MJ: Nine, ten years ago, I was searching desperately for a producer because, no disrespect to Canadian producers, but they were just not my style. They were always like, “if you only want to make commercial pop music, then you’re not a true musician. A real artist jams with other artists.” But I didn’t want to just sit and chill and jam with other musicians, I wanted my songs to become popular, I wanted pop music and I wanted commercial music because I wanted to reach an Afghan audience. I had a message to send. I needed to find a producer who could help me create a sound that would resonate with Afghan audiences. One day a friend told me he knew a producer who just moved here from Romania and as soon as I heard Romania I was like, “YES” because I already knew some music from there and it’s pretty fantastic. 

OB: I just moved here and I didn’t have any hits in Canada. I had hits in Romania, but they weren’t as credible as hits here, so I was really motivated to make some stuff happen. It was really important to find someone with a compatible personality to mine, and when I started working with Mozhdah I felt very comfortable and relaxed around her, so we work really effectively together. Our relationship is very special because we have built this trust and we have no creative restrictions. These are great moments as artists, creating and not caring what anybody thinks. Whether or not a song turns into a hit, it doesn’t matter because we’re both so proud of what we’ve created together. It took me a long time to feel comfortable making the music I want to make, regardless of what others think.

MJ: It’s so important to work with someone you’re comfortable with because you’re very vulnerable in the studio and you can’t be like that in front of just anybody. Ovi can tell me anything and it won’t hurt my feelings because I know he is doing what’s best for the song. Ovi just says it like it is and his constructive criticism helps me improve by making me aware of what I need to work on.

OB: Sometimes I go a bit overboard with that because of my culture, but I do like to speak my mind and be honest. I mean North Americans are very polite and I just feel like it’s such a waste of time and energy—I mean why waste half an hour saying, “oh I think that was great, but can we just try one more time please.” Just say it’s not sounding good—it doesn’t mean you’re not good; it just means it’s not sounding good and means we have to get it better, that’s all.

SR: What are you guys working on now?

OB: A bunch of traditional Afghan covers, but I want to do another English song soon as well. Mozhdah is a very complex artist and she can sing perfectly in any language and any genre, so it’s very easy for us to explore all of these musical directions.

SR: Is there a dream project you would love to do?

MJ: “Nothing Else Matters” by Metallica and I do love some Jan Arden songs; or The Eagles, The Verve, Bon Jovi, Queen, Smashing Pumpkins—those are the kinds of things I still love listening to even if they are not hits anymore. I also love Lana Del Rey’s sound; but it’s so unique, I feel her music is untouchable.

SR: I love Queen!

MJ: I’ve been listening to Queen for years; they’re probably my favorite band of all time besides Metallica. Queen and Metallica have always been my go-to music. And then the Queen movie [Bohemian Rhapsody] came out and all these people are starting to listen to them again, so it’s cool to see them make a comeback.

SR: Do you follow the music scene in Afghanistan at all?

MJ: I have a few really good musician friends there making incredible music, but otherwise I don’t keep up with the music scene there. I didn’t grow up with Afghan TV or listening to Afghan music, so it’s actually really cool that Afghans have been so supportive of my music because it’s not a familiar sound to them.

SR: Do you think that Afghans have warmed up to you so much because of everything you’ve done there, such as your talk show which created a dialogue around a lot of really taboo subjects?

MJ: Absolutely. At first a lot of people were skeptical of me, but then they started to realize that I was not there for the fame, but because I had a message. I wanted to empower women and I wanted to help my fellow Afghans. The love and respect I get from Afghans is a really great feeling. They don’t see me as just a singer, they see me as so much more, and I appreciate that they know what my true intentions are.

SR: Your show ruffled some feathers as you were addressing topics that people were not discussing, which resulted in death threats and you having to leave Afghanistan. Would you ever consider going back and doing something similar again to continue the dialogue?

MJ: Oh definitely. At that point I felt defeated—they shut down my show and they forced me out of my country. But I realized I could take advantage of the situation and get my foot in the door at an international level and do everything I intended to do on a much broader scale. So not just fighting for women’s rights in Afghanistan, but fighting for women’s rights on a global scale. I ended up getting an acting gig in a Canadian feature film, Red Snow, that is screening at Vancouver International Film Festival, which has been so surreal. Seeing myself on the big screen, and then I have the book coming out, and before all of this I released my album, Words, so it’s all happening simultaneously. Everything started happening for me after I made the decision to get my foot through the door here [in Canada]. So now that I have more of a platform, I want to use it to advocate for women’s rights everywhere. Before the #MeToo movement, I didn’t know about the struggles women are facing right here in North America because my focus was so much on Middle Eastern women and the oppression there. This is something that needs to be discussed more all over the world and I can help with that from right here in Canada. 

SR: You’re a panelist for this week’s conference at the Vancouver International Film Festivals’ sub conference on the state of music in film—is it surrounding Red Snow?

MJ: I collaborated on the movie’s soundtrack as well, so the panel is going to focus on the music. Wayne Lavallee, an indigenous composer, was involved and then we had some local Afghan musicians I recommended collaborate as well. The soundtrack is a blend of Indigenous and Afghan music, which is a strange yet cool combination and I think the panel will explore that.

SR: Is this the first time you’ve worked on the soundtrack for a film?

MJ: Yes!

SR: That must have been such an incredible experience. Before you came in, Ovi and I were talking about how it’s most musicians dream to score a film. How did it feel to work with a different team, and is this something you would do again? 

MJ: It’s always difficult when you have to switch up your routine. For this project, there were other singers with me, so I was a little nervous because they were super talented. I really appreciated the whole experience on Red Snow, but it was not my sound, I helped create someone else’s vision. I was so grateful for the opportunity to work with Marie Clements because she’s an incredible director and a legend here in Canada, and who I work with is very important because I’m always trying to surround myself with the right people and feel right about what I do with those people. So, with Red Snow everything felt right, and I was honored to be working with her on this soundtrack as well as in the movie; that was a dream come true for me. So, it was an amazing experience, but I prefer my routine because I love being in the studio with Ovi as there are no restrictions and we can create what we want.

SR: Something I wanted to ask as a music supervisor is: if your music could be placed in any TV show or a film by a certain director, what would it be?

MJ: Ooooooo [laughs] that’s a good question—when you emailed me about Homeland I pretty much fell off my chair, that would be a dream. I know it’s a long shot but then again anything can happen so I always hope for the best. Some of my favorite directors are Ridley Scott and Amy Sherman-Palladino, who is my all-time favorite director because she is a genius when it comes to writing and she recognizes that music plays a critical part in each scene. I love movies and TV shows as much as I love music because of their ability to tell stories, and now that I’ve got my foot in the door in acting I’m getting to know a lot more about directors, so I’d be very happy to work with any of them.

So, with everything we’ve talked about, if there’s something the readers take away, what do you hope to impart on them?

MJ: Everybody has moments where they question themselves, they question what they’re doing and have difficult moments. So, just know that anything you’re going through, you can overcome, and that you’re going to be so much stronger afterwards.

x Voice of Rebellion, the biography of Mozhdah Jamalzadah, by Roberta Staley, was released on October 22, 2019, with all proceeds going to Canadian Hadassah Wizo (CHW), an organization that helps women and children in Canada, Israel, and Afghanistan 

x Red Snow, the feature film Mozhdah starred and scored, is playing across Canada in select theatres now.